Your Religion, My Body–Happy Mother’s Day

It’s Mother’s Day–an appropriate time to think about human reproduction.

So…let me suggest a science fiction scenario.

We’re 25 years into the future. In reaction to massive population growth, NoNo, a religion encouraging ritual sterilization, has become the majority religion  in the U.S.  Practitioners believe (sincerely and devoutly) that God wants humans to avoid reproduction. (This religion’s conception of Diety is noncommittal on sex–it’s just making babies She is discouraging.)

As this religious community has grown, it has come to control the majority of the nation’s hospitals; well over 60% of them have become part of a national network of medical facilities run by and faithful to NoNo principles.

Our protagonist is not a NoNo, but she lives in a small town with only one hospital, and it is part of the NoNo network. She suddenly becomes ill. She is taken to the hospital in her area, where she is diagnosed with a treatable condition that will require minor surgery–and she’s told that, according to the tenets of NoNo, she will also be sterilized during the procedure. She objects–she’s only twenty, has never had children and desperately wants to be a mother–but her objections are deemed irrelevant. She is deprived of her control over her own body and any chance of having biological children.

Far fetched? Not if you switch the text.

The California Medical Association is seeking to join the ACLU of Northern California in its lawsuit against a Catholic hospital system over one of its facilities’ refusal on religious grounds to allow a doctor to perform a tubal ligation after a planned Cesarean section….

The suit stems from a case at Mercy Medical Center in Redding, one of Dignity Health’s 29 hospitals across the state. Mercy Medical says its refusal to perform the procedure was based on the Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services, written by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. The Directives – followed by all of California’s 35 Catholic hospitals – prohibit birth control, abortion and, in most cases, sterilization.

The California Medical Association says hospitals should make decisions that are medically appropriate–and should not make medical decisions that are contrary to best practices for reasons of religious dogma, especially when the patient does not accept that dogma.

Civil libertarians–in this case, the ACLU–say individuals should not have to cede control over their bodies and beliefs in order to receive medical care.

Over the past quarter-century or so, Catholic hospitals have assumed control of a significant percentage of the nation’s hospitals. What the courts need to decide is whether the merger of these hospitals entitles the Church to dictate medical decisions that would at best be considered “non-standard” or at worse would constitute malpractice.

Because God.

Suddenly, my “science fiction” scenario doesn’t look so far-fetched. As I’ve said before–a government with the power to prohibit abortion (or birth control) is a government with the power to require it. As a friend used to put it, poison gas is a great weapon until the wind shifts.

Unless the courts rule otherwise, hospitals with a monopoly on medical care can impose their own rules. Based upon their religious beliefs. No matter which way medical science’s winds blow.

45 thoughts on “Your Religion, My Body–Happy Mother’s Day

  1. This too is my argument against anti-abortion laws. When you give the government the right to tell you what you cannot do, you have at the same time given the government the right to change its mind and tell you that you will do the very thing that was once forbidden. At a time when the world’s population is exploding exponentially out of control, I cannot understand the members of the anti-abortion crowd, most of whom are arch conservatives who want government to stay out of our lives, fighting to give the government the power to someday force birth control in all of its forms on those same conservative.

  2. Preposterous. Why do WE as humans in a society continue to allow ENTITIES (either government or religious) to usurp our freedoms of choice (how to govern our lives)? We continue to vote for those who believe in control into positions of power. Preposterous !

  3. I am from the generation that required my husband’s permission and written signature on a legal document to have a tubal ligation at age 34, with five children and severe “female problems”. It had been difficult enough to find any doctor willing to perform the surgery; learned in local newspapers of Dr. H.C. Moss due to the law suit against him (I think by the ACLU) after performing the surgery on a retarded (acceptable term at the time) young woman which was requested by her parents. We are rapidly moving back in that direction and, sad as it is that those “ENTITIES” Carolyn referred to, are why we need to vote out as many Republicans as possible that are running for office in ALL elections in ALL states at ALL levels. Our hope lies there.

  4. Are we talking about “religion” or political control over “women”? At the deepest level, I’m 110% sure it’s the latter. Who are we kidding?

  5. We are talking about religion using the law to control women. It’s government of religion, by religion and for religion.

  6. This right wing position on abortion and birth control is a perfect example of hypocracy. They reject the notion of government control, but they only really reject government control in the boardroom. They want absolute control in the bedroom.

  7. This right wing position on abortion and birth control is a perfect example of hypocracy. They reject the notion of government control, but they only really reject government control in the boardroom. They want absolute control in the bedroom.

  8. Thank you Theresa and others; it IS the government using the facade of religion to control our bodies…the facade of THEIR religion contrary to any religious or non-religious beliefs we have. Isn’t it OUR religion the 1st Amendment was written to protect?

  9. The conclusion that the sword cuts both ways, especially with the government, is a sobering one. The ones who advocate the idea that “the government should do this”, and if it does, they somehow think that’s a major victory, even when it tramples on other people. They have to realize that the wind shifts, as it often does, and the government may decide to do the opposite and they are the ones trampled.

    I believe that we are beginning to see a number of laws like that, particularly of the “freedom of religion” sort (which are nether religious nor do they advocate freedom. The ones who initially advocated for those laws are beginning to discover that blowback exists.

    I like the poison gas metaphor.

  10. Theresa

    And there are sociopathic men controlling the religion. I’d rather take on the Koch Brothers and the Sons of Bush and their co-conspirators instead of their fall guy, Jesus. Wouldn’t you?

    A few days ago BSH asked who are the Elite? When I gave the most important names everyone dropped the subject. From here, it looks to me like Jesus is being used as a convenient scapegoat.

    Please point out to me where I am wrong. I believe the real problem is our lack of “civic courage.” It was a devastating problem in Nazi Germany and it seems to be even worse here in the U.S.

  11. Marv,
    I would rather take on ALL men and women who use either their religion or their immense wealth and power to destroy the constitution and the Bill of Rights to garner more control over their fellow citizens than let slide the delusional and magical thinking of one group over the other.

  12. re: Number of Wives, What to smoke. Sacrificial hosts during religious rites. Not protecting a woman’s life.
    Freedom of religion is just fine.
    You can believe anything you want — BUT you may NOT act on every single belief. It’s always been that way, until now, that is.

  13. Theresa,

    That’s all I’m trying to say. However, I will say that those in control at the deepest level are ALL men. And they are, for the most part, REAL DANGEROUS MEN.

    I understand the reluctance to engage. Fredrich Nietzsche in “Thus Spake Zarathustra” said it best: “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look into an abyss, THE ABYSS ALSO LOOKS AT YOU.”

    You have to know ALL the important names, past and present, of those responsible for creating this monstrous movement led by Donald Trump. If not, then you’re kidding yourself. Because if you attempt to take action against them without sufficient knowledge, they will tear you up just like Nietzsche was trying to warn. They can be beaten. But you better not make any mistakes.

    Sun Tzu said over 2,000 years ago, that the one with the “best intelligence apparatus” will win the battle. That’s why I don’t lose. So far.

  14. @Theresa Bowers: I’m with you 100% except for this: “the world’s population is exploding exponentially out of control.” No, it’s not. “The world population growth rate rose from about 1.5 percent per year from 1950-51 to a peak of over 2 percent in the early 1960s due to reductions in mortality. Growth rates thereafter started to decline due to rising age at marriage as well as increasing availability and use of effective contraceptive methods.” (https://www.census.gov/population/international/data/idb/worldgrgraph.php). See the graph at that link. Access to birth control has been successful.

  15. EFK,
    You are right on this. The population growth rate has slowed, most likely due to access to birth control. Still, the population continues to grow. And just as we seem to solve one problem facing mankind, another one rears its head. Less hunger in the world, but more pollution and climate change. When do we decide that we have enough people on the planet? Who decides that? And what is that number?

  16. Access to birth control is not the only determiner in the fastest growing populations in the world. The Chinese government’s enforced policies have distorted the gender and number of pregnancies among it population for decades and now is seeing the consequences. India is about to surpass China in actual population in the near future. Cultural and religious practices worldwide are changing but very slowly as more and more women are allowed (!) to decide if and when they want to reproduce without government interference. However, and that is a big however, we know that policies and practices change constantly as circumstances evolve (think Zika virus) that directly and indirectly influence reproductive decisions.

  17. EFK and Theresa; I think most of us on this blog are in agreement…contrary to irvin’s belief we are of “lesser minds”. I believe Marv is too intelligent to latch onto that mindset. Take into account the recently imposed laws prohibiting some women access to birth control while providing Viagra and erectile dysfunction supplies to men, we will see a rise in population in this country, however slight or great is yet to be seen. The abortion ban will result not only in increased population for those who cannot afford and/or are not qualified to provide all care needed by children but will also produce an increase in severely disabled children who will become a heavy drain on public assistance and the health care system resulting in even higher costs for everything. That is IF the GOP doesn’t take the White House and maintain control over Congress and end as much public assistance and health care as it hopes to do. And, according to a Stephen King quote, “As sure as s#*t sticks to a blanket.” that is their plan. Our laws are already imposing “Your Religion, My Body” sanctions on us 24/7/365…and far beyond the reach of what today should be “Happy Mother’s Day” for all who qualify.

  18. Irvin,

    The reason why I have continued to do this, over the past nine months, is that I don’t consider my failure to be about being too good. Who has the best mind is not the issue. I might lose that one with the extremely bright minds making up Sheila’s Blog.

    However, I do have a deeper knowledge from my experiences with the forces behind Donald Trump’s political power than anyone. The problem is with me in that I have failed to adequately convey that VITAL knowledge. I realize it’s a very difficult thing to do. And I might fail.

    To be honest, I’m afraid that time is running out. You have to “stay ahead of the puck.” Things don’t stay still. Donald Trump can go nowhere other that “up.”

    Read Matt Bai’s terrific commentary about Donald Trump on Yahoo News today. It’s just like I have been trying to warn these past weeks.

  19. Greetings JoAnn. I was hoping that you all would see the the “lesser minds” was not a put down. Irvin

  20. JoAnn,

    Thanks. Because of my interplay with all the “lesser minds” participating on this blog, I now understand my problem— It’s CREDIBILITY. I should be able to clear that problem up by the end of the month.

    Pray for my detractors. Especially, the Anti-Defamation League (ADL). They’re going to need everyone’s forgiveness after I get through with them.

    de-trac’tor (trak’tar) n. one who disparages

  21. When I first read Sheila’s invitation for commentary today in re abortion, I thought I should pass since as an old WASP male who has never been pregnant though the father of four I had no cattle in this stockade, then I recalled some of Trump’s recent discussion of the topic and decided otherwise. Trump in response to a question as to what to do with pregnant women who sought and obtained an abortion said that “they should be punished.” He did not specify just what “punishment” should be meted out to such miscreants, whether burning at the stake, a jail term, or a period in the “stocks” in the public square, there to be “vilified and spat upon” by an outraged general public, fired from public jobs or whatever. Cotton Mather would be proud.
    Chris Matthews asked Trump what role the loving male had in abortion, and Trump, after a moment’s thought, answered none (which means that the loving male would not be joining the “bad woman” in the “stocks,” though without his input neither would presumably be sitting in the public square). I think that answer amounts to a violation of fairness in interpretation of law if not a violation of the Equal Protection of the Laws Amendment. The male certainly does bear some responsibility for the situation that brought the pregnant woman to the abortion clinic just as a legal basis exists for her right to demand child support from him if she bears his child. It’s the prospective mother’s choice and not that of the anti-abortion people who ignore specific circumstances of the abortion-seeking woman (rape, HIV, the baby will live 24 hours etc.) in favor of a one-size-fits-all approach based on religion or other such authority real or assumed. Have that baby so we can ignore his or her needs afterwards!
    The anti-abortion people are frequently in favor of no birth control at all, prosecution of abortion providers etc. Taking such views to their dry logical end, then this group should favor prosecution of those who provide vasectomies and tubal ligations since those to amount to interference with “the natural order of things” and are a form of birth control. We can add vasectomy providers to abortion providers to their nurses and bookkeepers and janitors along with the miscreants themselves and anybody else who has facilitated an abortion to add to “the stocks” for public notice and vilification, unless we run out of room on the public square – or the jailhouse.

  22. One simplified way to look at political worldviews are those based on power vs those based on freedom.

    Power based worldviews are based on the belief that one can be entitled to impose on others. Freedom based implies that only government elected by the people has the right to impose based on the greater good.

    So there you are. Choose one. Of course you might choose power if you are entitled enough by wealth for example so that you have freedom at the expense of others. But plenty of non wealthy people also choose power for example like gun hobbies or evangelism.

    The biggest question of course for America is who is now the majority? In the past it’s always been freedom lovers. Has it changed now to power based?

  23. Gerald; did Trump say when they should be punished? During pregnancy, after the birth, after the 6-week checkup – I’m assuming he wouldn’t allow the abortion or there would be no need for punishment, perhaps he felt the pregnancy was punishment enough. Perhaps he didn’t think about it at all; perhaps he doesn’t think at all. He says he will resolve all of this country’s problems but never tells us how he will accomplish this. He probably isn’t aware that providing birth control options for women (or if men would opt to use them) would prevent those pregnancies and save the time and effort to punish her…if he could decide on a punishment. He can’t decide the best way to run businesses or wouldn’t have those pesky bankruptcies that keep cropping up in the media. Can’t decide which country provides the best women to produce a suitable wife or find a suitable wife other than in strip clubs…but he does keep trying.

    Please excuse my nasty temper today; I am sick of politics, politicians (other than Bernie) and am desperately seeking an automatic delete option for my computer to delete every Trump picture before it appears…and they appear with sickening frequency. Ever wonder what his mother was like? Or what she would think of him today, on this Mother’s Day?

  24. USA laws are not each the same, but have to be printed out by the authors at least, as well as any changes pending. TALK is not law at all, and legal terminations of human lives, even of tumors or cysts, are not matters of conversation or mass communications literally. Surgeons right there at Indianapolis do not benefit from having judges as friends when they must make ethical — not social or psychological — rules and regulations of trade and commerce in humans, in their cells and invasive procedures of any kind.
    What religions or even disciplines are abortions? Are legal homicides of any kind, provided the surgeons, nurses, employees did kill a human, not a dermatose cyst or rotting egg sac? The pro-abortion talk among parents of even nursery-school children is so prevalent now that many parents have to pull their children out of public church schools to keep them from night terrors.

  25. I just got on my computer to read today’s post. The final few comments had me laughing out loud! Thanks for the humor because I needed some today.
    JoAnn, re your last comment about what Trump’s mother might be thinking. Maybe she would support post-birth abortion in his case 😆

  26. As as aging Baby Boomer female, I’m worried seriously about the current group of younger women who seem not to have any critical thinking skills or problem-solving skills. Possessing just a tad of common sense would suggest to a young woman seeking an abortion or seeking to terminate a pregnancy that she’d be better served in her search by locating an OB/GYN who expresses an openness to abortion and who also has practice privileges at a hospital with a documented track record of performing abortions.

    Strictly anecdotal, my first child was born in a Catholic Hospital, my choice as a non-Catholic, simply because the Catholic Hospital offered the most current, the most up-to-date, and the best practices in obstetrical care at that time.

    Five years later, we were pregnant again. And, for personal reasons, we opted to terminate the pregnancy. No, I did not seek an OB/GYN who practiced through a Catholic Hospital.

    Flash forward 16 years to the surprise pregnancy where I selected the OB/GYN group serving older women, as in 40+ years old. The Maternal-Fetal Medical Group affiliated with Eastern Virginia Medical School and practicing out of Norfolk General Hospital. All patients of this group knew in advance they’d undergo amniocentesis at 16 weeks, knew they’d hand-deliver the vial of their amniotic fluid to the Genetics Lab across the street, and knew this group did NOT perform tubal ligations following the birth of any child. Dr Warsof and Dr Levy hands down were the best and the most professional physicians I’ve ever encountered.

    And, I’ll always remember Dr Warsof refusing to perform a tubal ligation following the birth of my son. He said something to this effect “Think about the tubal ligation for a year, and then get back with me.” http://www.evmshealthservices.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/site.physicians/action/dtl/phys/99836572.cfm

  27. Two small thoughts:

    Read/watch “The Handmaid’s Tail,” a dystopian fantasy of a future in which a religious group has taken over the USA, upholding moral and physical purity interpreted as monagamous marriage. Control includes the sequestering of unmarried maidens who are used for pregnancy as the rulers and/or their wives are barren. Relations between the ruling men and their wives and the ‘handmaidens’ are ritualized, and, of course, there is an underbelly. I have not watched this for years, it still seems frightening to contemplate, even as the fiction it is. I have always quipped: “If you want to know the future history of the United States, watch/read The Handmaids’ Tale…” Author is Canadian Margaret Atwood. I apologize if I have missremembered any of the story’s salient details.

    Next a small tale of my own, demonstrating that nutty, ugly, religious nonsense is sadly not constrained by national borders or time or anything else for that matter: 35 years ago, more or less, I found myself pregnant despite a tubal ligation (did you know the failure rate for these is one in 10,000 – oh, why can’t I win a lottery!). Simultaneously I had an issue requiring major abdominal surgery. In my small-ish community I had this possibility…terminate the pregnancy through day surgery in a small facility that would do this…travel across town to the large, Catholic hospital where I could have the major surgery…go again to the small facility to have the repeat tubal ligation I would need….recover at leisure…Five different doctors had varied opinions about the safety/advisability of continuing the pregnancy. One of these was very worried that should I choose to do so, my life would be forfeit. He cited a current patient with similar issues who was, in fact, dying. Luckily for me, I had doctors in the city who could take me on. They did, the subsequent surgery took nearly six hours, the recovery took a long time, but this tubal ligation stuck. None of the extenuating circumstances made that termination easy or ‘fun.’ I had and have plenty to be thankful for, including, despite inconveniences, the availability, excellence, lack of judgment, and zero cost of medical help and the support of wonderful Friends.

    So far as I know, the situation regarding abortion and tubal ligtation remains the same in that small town. And the nasty, territorial approach of some ‘local’ doctors toward those in the more populared urban centers remains…”I see you went to the urban mafia,” commented the ob/gyn I consulted in that small town (yes, last visit to him). As we know, always, Religion is intertwined with power-over, and sneering down, and is not related to the human urge to connect with the ineffable beauty and joy of creation.

    Small story, unique circumstances, maybe…but, no…right now Canada seems insulated from the worst of the biggoted, small minded, controlling, male dominated ugliness you all are suffering under. We did vote. It did help. But we cannot relax, because this stuff is pervasive and contagious, and like a forest fire, it can go underground and persist for ever.

    I realize that those who are reached by this blog are not a large group, but I hope your common sense and hopeful approach are also contagious and persistent. Thank you for not giving up.

  28. Note: I thought I had posted this. Maybe not. Can’t tell. I am going to try again. Apologies if it appears twice.

    Two small thoughts:

    Read/watch “The Handmaid’s Tail,” a dystopian fantasy of a future in which a religious group has taken over the USA, upholding moral and physical purity interpreted as monagamous marriage. Control includes the sequestering of unmarried maidens who are used for pregnancy as the rulers and/or their wives are barren. Relations between the ruling men and their wives and the ‘handmaidens’ are ritualized, and, of course, there is an underbelly. I have not watched this for years, it still seems frightening to contemplate, even as the fiction it is. I have always quipped: “If you want to know the future history of the United States, watch/read The Handmaids’ Tale…” Author is Canadian Margaret Atwood. I apologize if I have missremembered any of the story’s salient details.

    Next a small tale of my own, demonstrating that nutty, ugly, religious nonsense is sadly not constrained by national borders or time or anything else for that matter: 35 years ago, more or less, I found myself pregnant despite a tubal ligation (did you know the failure rate for these is one in 10,000 – oh, why can’t I win a lottery!). Simultaneously I had an issue requiring major abdominal surgery. In my small-ish community I had this possibility…terminate the pregnancy through day surgery in a small facility that would do this…travel across town to the large, Catholic hospital where I could have the major surgery…go again to the small facility to have the repeat tubal ligation I would need….recover at leisure…Five different doctors had varied opinions about the safety/advisability of continuing the pregnancy. One of these was very worried that should I choose to do so, my life would be forfeit. He cited a current patient with similar issues who was, in fact, Dying. He had already convinced me to have the initial tubal because he thought another pregnancy would be life threatening. Luckily for me, I had doctors in the city who could take me on. They did, the subsequent surgery took nearly six hours, the recovery took a long time, but this tubal ligation stuck. None of the extenuating circumstances made that termination easy or ‘fun.’ I had and have plenty to be thankful for, including, despite inconveniences, the availability, excellence, lack of judgment, and zero cost of medical help and the support of wonderful Friends.

    So far as I know, the situation regarding abortion and tubal ligtation remains the same in that small town. And the nasty, territorial approach of some ‘local’ doctors toward those in the more populared urban centers remains…”I see you went to the urban mafia,” commented the ob/gyn I consulted in that small town (yes, last visit to him). As we know, always, Religion is intertwined with power-over, and sneering down, and is not related to the human urge to connect with the ineffable beauty and joy of creation.

    Small story, unique circumstances, maybe…but, no…right now Canada seems insulated from the worst of the biggoted, small minded, controlling, male dominated ugliness you all are suffering under. We did vote. It did help. But we cannot relax, because this stuff is pervasive and contagious, and like a forest fire, it can go underground and persist for ever.

    I realize that those who are reached by this blog are not a large group, but I hope your common sense and hopeful approach are also contagious and persistent. Thank you for not giving up.

  29. Nancy; Trump is just as great an greatest argument for abortion – at any stage – as Mayor Bill Hudnut is an argument to proceed quickly with the study of cloning. Possibly the last living real Republican we know.

  30. Lest the issue be lost in the moral debate, sometimes abortion saves lives. Ectopic pregnancies, when the zygote fails to attach in uterine usually in the Fallopian tubes prove to be fatal to both mother and child. They are not unusual. The termination of ectopic pregnancy is outlawed if abortion is outlawed. Let’s not forget the failure of a catholic hospital in Ireland to allow a mother with a dead fetus to transfer out of the facility to get a lifesaving abortion. Before you take a rigid stance on a medical issue please understand the real life consequences of your “moral” belief

  31. A woman I know gave birth in 1988 at St. Joseph’s in Kokomo. After giving birth she had to be transferred to Howard Community for her tubal ligation. This was 1988. SMH

  32. JoAnn,

    The deepest issue facing us with Donald Trump can only be understood through EXPERIENCE. It’s not about who has more intelligence or character. It’s about experiencing RACE at the deepest level. We both have that experience. There is no substitute for that. Without it, you can’t see the whole political picture. And, eventually, you’ll be BLIND-SIDED.

    Donald Trump is an expert at race baiting. He’s been baiting Barack Obama from the beginning. His first move as a candidate was to bait the Jews. If we can all remember that, even if the Jews would like to forget it. And that move “put him in like Flynn” with the Tea Party as he swatted away the Jews like they were nothing more than a bunch of flies. After that move, he’s been unstoppable.

  33. Marv; I have followed that bastard’s public life and career for many years. I am fully aware of what Donald Trump is (a cockhound before anything else) and what he isn’t (presidential material). Truth be told…I am becoming more afraid of his supporters than of that man himself. There is only one of him and he is not in my neighborhood and never will be. There are millions of people of now questionable intelligence supporting him; including some of my neighbors, Catholic Republicans. I did see a strange sight yesterday; the two original Trump yard signs two blocks from my home are GONE. I don’t know them so have no idea what their deal is. My granddaughter who stated on Thanksgiving she was going to vote for him (because he knows how to run a business) is now totally and blatantly against him and angered at his takeover of this country with his empty promises, baseless campaign foundation and his lies. There are many more reasons than RACE to be against this fool; those of us with good memories know all of them. This presidential campaign has become eerie and frightening. What is the GOP doing, some seem to have “come around to Trump’s way of thinking”…or are they up to something which they will spring on us at the convention? I swear; I would rather see George W back in the White House before The Donald and his stripper wife.

  34. JoAnn,

    You might be better off with Adolph Hitler. At least he wasn’t a coward.

    If Donald Trump is elected, you will see his clone emerge in every community in America. It’s already happening here in Jacksonville, even before he’s elected.

  35. Marv; I don’t know what your personal problems are but please concentrate on what I SAID, not what you believe I said to lead you to the ugliest, most insulting comment you can make to any American. I am losing respect for you and your angry views. Shame on you for your Adolph Hitler comment; you weren’t even right about that for he was a coward throughout his life and career – he killed no Jew himself, his supporters did the work for him. Just as Trump’s supporters are carrying out his racist, anti-Semitic, violent beliefs – you will never see him remove a protester from his rally any more than you would have seen Hitler drop the Cyclone B gas down the tube into the showers. Please do me a favor and scroll past my comments when you see my name; I prefer NOT reading your views of me until you clear your thinking and get that bug out of your ass.

  36. JoAnn,

    I appreciate your comment, but I’m not taking it back. Adolph Hitler was a decorated war hero. Donald Trump from what I have read is pretty much a draft dodger. If you want to disregard the facts, I can understand your position. I’m making a VITAL point and I admit INTENTIONALLY without regard to Jewish sensitivities, which in the long run is going to kill them in AMERICA and take the rest of us along.

    I’ll give you the nod when it comes to racism, but not to anti-Semitism or any so-called Jewish defense organizations which you know very little about. And I do.

    P.S. Remember asking me why I was considering leaving the Blog? You jut answered it for me.

  37. The religion of NoNo reminds me of my days as a doc student studying various medieval heresies. One of them was the Cathar Heresy, Cathar, coming from the Greek for Pure ones. The idea was to avoid creating more flesh, which was fallible and corruptible. So, the best thing for humanity would be simply to die out. Don’t you love it? They also believed that certain foods were better than others in promoting the will of God — cantaloupe, strawberries GOOD; animal products BAD. Check it out. It’s an interesting heresy.

  38. Eric,

    “The religion of NoNo reminds me of my days as a doc student studying various medieval heresies.”

    I’ve tried to google: religion of NoNo. Is that your metaphor? I couldn’t find it on google search.

    That’s a great “pitch.” Almost impossible to hit back.

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