The Immigration Debate

Last night, I spoke to the Lafayette chapter of Indiana’s ACLU. They asked that I address immigration. This is the talk I delivered.

It’s tempting to dismiss Trump’s emphasis on immigration—and especially his wall– as both stupid and racist: Stupid, because most people who are here illegally have flown in and overstayed their visas—something a wall would neither address or prevent—and illegal entries from Mexico, which were already diminishing, have declined some 45% since Trump’s election (along with tourism from pretty much everywhere); racist, because that wall he wants is only between us and Mexico, not us and Canada. And he’s made it clear he’d put out the welcome mat for those blond immigrants from Norway….

In fact, a significant element of racism infects the entire immigration debate. My own son-in-law is an immigrant; he’s been in the U.S. on a green card for nearly 40 years, and in all that time, he has encountered exactly zero anti-immigrant hostility. He’s not from Norway, but he is a very pale Brit who hasn’t entirely lost his cute English accent.

Trump’s emphasis on immigration is of a piece with his appeal to White Nationalists generally, but in all fairness, this administration didn’t invent the debate over immigration, nor is it the first to stoke the tribalism that infects that debate. I know facts are out of fashion these days, but it is instructive to look both at our history and the actual impact of immigration.

In a January column on the subject, David Brooks of the New York Times recognized that—when you look at that history and those facts, they point to one inescapable conclusion. Here’s what he wrote:

The case for restricting immigration seems superficially plausible. Over the last several decades we’ve conducted a potentially reckless experiment. The number of foreign-born Americans is at record highs, straining national cohesion, raising distrust. Maybe America should take a pause, as we did in the 1920s. After all, that pause seemed to produce the cohesive America of the 1940s that won the war and rose to pre-eminence.

Every few years I try to write this moderate column. And every few years I fail. That’s because when you wade into the evidence you find that the case for restricting immigration is pathetically weak. The only people who have less actual data on their side are the people who deny climate change.

There has always been a nativist streak in America. If you go to the East Side Tenement Museum in New York, you’ll see that Ellis Island was first established to keep “undesirables” from entering the country. The poem we all quote on Lady Liberty—the “give me your tired, your poor, your masses yearning to breathe free”– was Emma Lazarus’ response to the Chinese Exclusion Act. The Know-Nothing Party (which today’s GOP seems to want to emulate, if not eclipse) was formed largely by people who feared that Irish Catholic immigrants would take jobs from God-fearing Protestant “real Americans.”

The persistent inability of Congress to pass immigration reform is one of the reasons the Executive Branch has been exercising more policy authority—Obama’s efforts to protect the Dreamers, for example, were a response to continued inaction by the legislative branch.

What are the facts—as opposed to the xenophobic fears—about immigration and immigrants?

Immigrants themselves make up about 14% of the U.S. population; more than 43 million people. Together with their children, they are about 27% of us. Of the 43 million, approximately   11 million are undocumented, and as I noted previously, after Trump took office, Customs and Border Protection reported a 36% drop in crossings from Mexico. Since 2007, individuals who flew in and overstayed their visas have outnumbered those who cross the border illegally by 600,000.

What anti-immigrant activists are calling “chain migration” is actually family re-unification and it applies only to close relatives; of the people granted permanent residency in 2016, about two-thirds fell into that category.

Immigrants made up 17% of the U.S. workforce in 2014, and two-thirds of those were here legally. Collectively, they were 45% of domestic workers, 36% of manufacturing workers, and 33% of agricultural workers. Those percentages help to explain why state-level efforts to curb immigration have come back to bite them: in Alabama a few years ago, as many of you will recall, the state passed a draconian new immigration law, and crops rotted in the fields. Farmers couldn’t find native-born residents willing to do the work, despite offering to pay more than minimum wage.

Despite the hateful rhetoric from the Rightwing fringe, most Americans consider immigration a good thing: in 2016, Gallup found 72% of Americans viewed immigrants favorably, and as many as 84% supported a path to citizenship for undocumented persons who met certain requirements. Another poll showed that 76% of Republicans supported a path to citizenship, and it’s worth noting that such support was higher than the 62% who supported a border wall.

What about the repeated claims that immigrants are a drain on the economy? The data unequivocally shows otherwise. As the Atlantic and several other sources have reported, undocumented immigrants pay billions of dollars into Social Security for benefits they will never receive. These are people working on faked social security cards; employers deduct the social security payments and send them to the government, but because the numbers aren’t connected to actual accounts, the worker cannot access their contributions. The Social Security system has grown increasingly—and dangerously– reliant on that revenue; in 2010, the system’s chief actuary estimated that undocumented immigrants contributed roughly 12 billion dollars to the program.

The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy estimates that approximately half of undocumented workers pay income taxes, but all of them pay sales and property taxes. In 2010, those state and local taxes amounted to approximately 10.6 billion dollars.

The most significant impact of immigration, however, has been on innovation and economic growth. The Partnership for a New American Economy issued a research report in 2010: key findings included the fact that more than 40% of Fortune 500 companies were founded by immigrants or their children. Collectively, companies founded by immigrants and their children employ more than 10 million people worldwide; and the revenue they generate is greater than the GDP of every country in the world except the U.S., China and Japan.

The names of those companies are familiar to most of us: Intel, EBay, Google, Tesla, Apple, You Tube, Pay Pal, Yahoo, Nordstrom, Comcast, Proctor and Gamble, Elizabeth Arden, Huffington Post. A 2012 report found that immigrants are more than twice as likely to start a business as native-born Americans. As of 2011, one in ten Americans was employed by an immigrant-run business.

On economic grounds alone, then, we should welcome immigrants. But not only do we threaten undocumented persons, we make it incredibly difficult to come here legally. If there is one fact that everyone admits, it is the need to reform a totally dysfunctional and inhumane system. Based upon logic and the national interest, it’s hard to understand why Congress has been unwilling or unable to craft reasonable legislation. Of course, logic and the national interest have been missing from Washington for some time. And compassion went with them.

Which brings me to DACA, and the willingness of this administration and Congress to use the Dreamers as hostages and pawns.

On September 5thof last year, Trump terminated the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. As you all know, Dreamers are children who came to the U.S. with their parents; most of them know no other home. A significant number speak only English. There was no particular reason, other than his fixation on immigration—nothing had happened that required or justified an out-of-the-blue termination of a program that huge majorities of Americans favored. At the time, Trump announced that it was the responsibility of Congress to pass legislation by March 5 to avert the crisis he had just caused.  That has not happened.

In January, a federal court entered a preliminary injunction requiring the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to receive and adjudicate DACA renewal applications from young people who previously received protection under the program. A second court entered a similar injunction weeks later, and on February 26, the Supreme Court declined the federal government’s highly unusual request to hear their appeal—and bypass the U.S. Court of Appeals.

So where are we?

Since its inception, more than 800,000 young people have applied for and received DACA status. Thanks to the injunctions, these individuals can apply for additional two-year work permits and protection from deportation. But the injunctions don’t protect other DACA-eligible individuals. According to the Migration Policy Institute, the overall total number of individuals who may have been eligible to apply for DACA or who may have become eligible by aging into the program or obtaining additional education was slightly more than 1.8 million.

Now, because Trump ended DACA, they are locked out of protection.

There are also an estimated 120,000 individuals among that 1.8 million who were unable to apply because they weren’t yet 15 years old when Trump ended DACA.

In addition to potentially DACA-eligible individuals who either did not—or could not—apply under the program before its termination, there are an additional 285,000 Dreamers who came to the United States at a similarly young age as DACA recipients and have lived here for even longer, but who were entirely cut out of DACA from the beginning, because the program excluded otherwise eligible individuals who were 31 or older as of June 15, 2012, when the program was announced.

The irony is that these older Dreamers have the longest and deepest ties to U.S. families and communities, since they arrived here as children at least 20 years ago. Bipartisan legislation, such as the Dream Act of 2017 and the USA Act of 2018 would get rid of the age cap entirely, remedying this situation, and would extend protection to Dreamers who, years ago, arrived in the country before the age of 18. They are currently excluded from DACA because they arrived after their 16th birthday.

It is so obvious where justice lies for these children that even our broken Congress was able to come up with a bipartisan bill—but despite his promise to sign whatever Congress came up with, Trump rejected it. Meanwhile, the media is filled with heartbreaking stories about families being torn apart, by the deportation of longtime residents who have been important, law-abiding assets to their communities—despite Trump’s rhetoric about focusing on the “bad hombres” among them.

Law is important. There should be consequences for ignoring it. But we can protect the rule of law without destroying families, sending children “back” to countries they know nothing about, and spitting on American ideals.

Over the past several months, we have seen escalating reports of horrible behavior by ICE and Homeland Security. Let me just share one such report, from a Washington Post article a few weeks ago, about the increasing practice of separating children from their mothers:

There is no allegation that the little girl, known in court filings only as S.S., is a terrorist, nor is there any suggestion her mother is one. Neither was involved with smuggling, nor contraband, nor lawbreaking of any other variety. Rather, S.S.’s 39-year-old mother presented herself and her daughter to U.S. officials when they crossed the borderfrom Mexico four months ago, explaining they had fled extreme violence in Congo, and requesting asylum.

A U.S. asylum officer interviewed Ms. L, as the mother is called in a lawsuit filed on her behalf by the American Civil Liberties Union, determined that she had a credible fear of harm if she were returned to Congo and stood a decent chance of ultimately being granted asylum. Despite that preliminary finding, officials decided that the right thing to do was to wrench S.S. from her mother, whereupon the mother “could hear her daughter in the next room frantically screaming that she wanted to remain with her mother,” the lawsuit states.

The Trump administration has said that it is considering separating parents from their children as a means of deterring other families, most of them Central American, from undertaking the perilous trip necessary to reach the United States and seek asylum. Now, without any formal announcement, that cruel practice, ruled out by previous administrations, has become increasingly common, immigrant advocacy groups say. In the nine months preceding February, government agents separated children from their parents 53 times, according to data compiled by the Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service.

Make no mistake: Ms. L and S.S. could have been placed together in a family detention center. There has been no explanation of why the determination was made to separate them; nor is there any allegation that Ms. L. is an unfit parent.

This administration sees nothing wrong with calling DACA children criminals despite the fact that their parents brought them here when they were too young to legally form criminal intent. It sees nothing wrong with separating children from their parents while their applications for asylum are pending. It sees nothing wrong with arresting and deporting upstanding, otherwise law-abiding unauthorized immigrants who have lived and worked here for decades are the parents of U.S.-born children.

This profoundly corrupt administration has no concept of the rule of law, no compassion for the people whose lives it is ruining, no understanding of the long-term damage it is inflicting on this country, and no competence for managing the affairs of state. The longer the “party over country” Republicans in Congress facilitate this President, the more damage is done to America at home and abroad.

If there isn’t a “blue wave” in November, the damage may be irreversible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

33 thoughts on “The Immigration Debate

  1. These FACTS are important, but facts alone cannot change the situation we’re in. Unfortunately, the problem has gone much further than that. That’s why nothing changes and nothing will change based ONLY on an accumulation of ALL the facts.

  2. The length of your speech underscores the complexity of this issue. I have a good Mexican friend whose family moved from Brownsville to Indiana because it wasn’t safe. Trump is correct about the felonies being committed but isn’t focusing on the cause.

    By the way, I also have an American friend who just canceled he and his girlfriend’s vacation to Cancun because the cartels are killing each other and kidnapping Americans for cash.

    Most of the border towns are run by drug cartels. For some reason, we don’t see the same thing in Canada though I’ve heard British Columbia grows the strongest weed. Maybe this is why the Western States are legalizing marijuana because they were losing money to Canada.

    HSBC had been laundering drug cartel money for decades. They even had special windows installed so the cartels could drop off locked cases of cash. How many bank employees were jailed for this activity?

    None.

    It’s interesting that Mexico has become so ridden with drugs. Who’s buying all these drugs??

    Who’s paying for cheap labor at resort towns? Do you think Indiana’s Red Gold has Americans lining up to pick tomatoes? How about apples? Meatpacking plants?

    Immigration or the Mexicans aren’t the problems. They are playing the hand dealt them.

    And by the way, Afghanistan had another record poppy season. They’ve enjoyed double-digit growth since the American military started a war there and now guard the origin of heroin.

    Do you think it’s a coincidence that America has a heroin problem? 😉

    This “blue wave” means very little in the scheme of things.

  3. The inaction on immigration reform again demonstrates that congress will do nothing unless instructed by the Kochs and Trump only cares about his next tv appearance where he can dazzle us with his 200 word vocabulary. They’re just not interested in governing; people don’t matter to this government.

  4. This is for all of those Trump voters out there. The long wait for those jobs that the illegals stole from you is over! There are openings all over the place for below minimum wage/under the table dish washing jobs. And bus boy jobs! And those resume building agriculture jobs where you can get a tan while sweating in the fields. Yep, the good times are back, and your vote made it possible. Enjoy!

  5. This country has been “accumulating facts” regarding immigrants, legal and illegal, for decades but has made no move to put those fact to work seeking a resolution to this problem. The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007 was never voted on; during the followup years, bills were presented and not voted on or ignored in session. Per Voice of America on April 4, 2018, Comprehensive Immigration Reform bills presented after the ignored June 23, 2007, presentation are: December 8, 2010, May 10, 2011, June 5, 2012, June 27, 2013 and November 20, 2014. On November 25, 2014, AZ Sheriff Joe Arpaio sued President Obama over DACA and other Executive Orders; SCOTUS decided not to review the case. On September 5, 2017, Trump rescinded President Obama’s DACA. That was the final “official” action presented regarding immigration reform. Since September 5, 2017, the only “action” regarding immigration has been the running of Trump’s mouth and his demands for that wall. We have been distracted by his escalating nonsense on this issue along with his pissing contest with Kim Jong Un exchanging nuclear attack threats and Trump’s legal problems regarding his sexual antics through the years.

    But; back to the illegal immigration issue; my Mexican granddaughter-in-law and my nearly 5 year old Mexican-American great-granddaughter remain in hiding after she was fired from her long-time job locally at the CVS warehouse. She was one of all illegal immigrant fired that Saturday morning last May; if CVS knew they were illegal to fire them, CVS knew they were illegal when they hired them. Was CVS the only local business who took that action and was that action only taken locally? These underpaid workers put their money back into the economy with the rest of us so the economy has been effected. My granddaughter-in-law was brought here at age 14; after she and my grandson married they found an attorney who worked with them for six years at the cost of $10,000, to work out details to legalize her position by returning to Mexico to work with the attorney there to begin the legal process to return. Now; she cannot attempt to return to Mexico with my great-granddaughter due to fear of arrest and deportation. If they found a safe way to travel to Mexico they would not be allowed to return to this country and their family. There are probably millions in the same position; we have read the stories of those brought here as children as long as 40 years ago, some who have served in our military, who have been torn from their families and deported. There are also those immigrants who served in our military who did not return or were returned in a casket.

    “This profoundly corrupt administration has no concept of the rule of law, no compassion for the people whose lives it is ruining, no understanding of the long-term damage it is inflicting on this country, and no competence for managing the affairs of state. The longer the “party over country” Republicans in Congress facilitate this President, the more damage is done to America at home and abroad.”

    It appears more attempts to pass a Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act were made (probably by Democrats) during President Obama’s eight YEARS of administration while an equal or higher number of blocking any and all action has happened under Trump’s administration during his 16 MONTH reign of idiocy. I have based my comments ” …ONLY on an accumulation of ALL the facts.” but as Marv said “nothing changes and nothing will change” under this Republican “deconstructed” government.

  6. Around the turn of the 20th century, anti-immigration fever was rampant – except for immigrants from the UK, Scandinavia, and Germany. People from Eastern Europe were often rejected because they were assumed to be Jewish. Southern Europeans were often rejected because they were assumed to be imbeciles, who would breed and produce more imbeciles. All four of my grandparents came here from Italy, and somehow made it through Ellis Island. My Dad’s parents got through because my grandfather was a doctor and spoke English. I have no idea how my Mom’s parents got in – they did not speak English at first, and were not educated. But somehow they made it.

    The kind of racism Trump spouts is long-standing.

  7. A few months back, Paul Ryan was lamenting the fact that American families were not having enough children to fill the numbers of jobs that are anticipated. The Conservative solution to this is to encourage women to have more children, a back to the kitchen solution if ever there was one. Hey, Paul, how about just opening the borders to more immigrants. They want to come and they’ll take even the bad jobs.

  8. Speaking more to the points made above, history also shows us that dictators of various ideologies tend to promote xenophobia as part of their fear campaigns that drive the non-thinking masses into their orbit. Capitalism, and its ugly bedfellow, slavery are the engines for cheap labor. On the one hand capitalists crave cheap labor, while the displaced “originals” scream bloody murder about their jobs going to the “other”.

    Our immigration “debate” is literally as old as the first European settlers coming to the Americas. They brought their arrogance, nihilism and bigotry with them. Combine all that with the lust for profits, and you end up with the constant, roiling resentment of one group against the other.

    Immigration will never be satisfactorily resolved in our country, because too many politicians choose to exploit the inherent fears of “the other” for political and financial gain. Let’s face it: Humans are fearful and hateful of other tribes; we’ve always been like this. It’s in our social DNA.

  9. “Warning Intelligence” by Cynthia M. Garbo (The Association of Former Intelligence Officers, McLean, VA, 1987):

    “Cynthia Garbo was a graduate student at the University of Chicago when she was recruited by Army Intelligence (G-2) in W.W. II. She retired from the Defense Intelligence Agency in 1979.”

    “It does not follow that the best warning judgments flow inevitably or even usually from the most diligent view of CURRENT INFORMATION. The most accurate warning is more likely to be the product of a detailed or continuing review in depth of information received over weeks or months which may be relevant to the current situation. Very few crises erupt so suddenly [Trumpism] that there is no hints of impending trouble well before the situation becomes acute. Most crises have roots going deep into the PAST, and early indications may be received at least weeks and quite often months or even YEARS before the crises erupts. The analysts who have kept TRACK of these earlier indications and can recall and INTEGRATE them with the CURRENT DATA will usually have a FAR BETTER understanding of the situation than the watch officer who perforce cannot have done such detailed analysis.” p. 8

  10. to respond to some of the comments: ‘Who is paying for all these drugs?’ – people you would call me a liar if I told you. – you see the whole thing is a way both to make money, (what is a few lives of foreigners in the process?) and make sure a Euro-centric Anglo-Saxon heritage class stays on top. Racism is built into ‘Manifest Destiny’. Then you raise up these hardened criminals in another country provide them with weapons and equipment through legal sources and take advantage of the criminal networks that ‘you protect’ all while fighting a ‘drug war’ in other places – where the real trafficking and import is – and you make sure your Justice department is filled with corrupt people that you can control, then you report your findings to your el Capo – In Russia. There is a reason the FBI is under attack – THEY ARE TOO GOOD AT GETTING THE BAD GUYS!!! so consider this the next time you see Mitch McConnell being ‘the boss’ or jeffery beauregard sessions (the Harry J. Anslinger wanna-be – who lied to Congress and the Senate!) remember what I wrote here – and those ‘loveable Bush’s’ oh don’t even get me started on that one…

  11. Trump ended DACA so he would have a bargaining chip for immigration and ancillary issues when the DACA issue inevitably returned, and then had the colossal gall to play his base with stories of how DACA’s failure was the fault of the Democrats. His plan worked well and it has only partially been offset by subsequent judicial opinions reinstating DACA for selective populations.

    Meanwhile, crops are rotting in the fields and (predictably) prices for fruits and vegetables will go up for the rest of us, including his base. Trump favors immigration of Norwegians (who as the happiest people in the world in a recent survey) aren’t coming. Norway has a huge savings account from oil, a budget surplus, and a sane government, so why should they want to come to the United States currently ruled by kleptocrats and psychopaths? Due to pressure from Silicon Valley, however, Trump thinks immigration of PhDs is fine. Algorithms and “campaign contributions” trump compassion.

    I do not agree with Todd’s view that the blue wave this November may be irrelevant. Indeed I cannot think of a more relevant means of correction of the current chaos we are experiencing (short of revolution) than by electing at least one house of the Congress to stem our descent into Third World status and rendering our tattered democracy as a thing of the past. I think instead that we must vote this fall en masse as though our lives depend upon it – because they do.

  12. Often we liberals make life too complicated looking for intellectual problems and solutions that are often the result of the lack of rather than the presence of them. It seems like much of our national bi-polar personality is mere the reality of immature self centeredness vs intellect; the good cop/bad cop angels sitting on everyone’s shoulders. We are a country. We exist to solve problems between individuals and to create an atmosphere, an environment in which all of us individuals can live a self actualized existence. It’s not about you. It’s not about me. It’s about us.

  13. The political reality is that we have become very much like the Germany of the 30’s and, unfortunately, we haven’t learned very much from their catastrophic experience.

  14. Ha, Ha, the Blue Wave – Here is how the DNC is leading the fighting:

    Democratic Party files suit alleging Russia, the Trump campaign, and WikiLeaks conspired to disrupt the 2016 election

    The Democratic National Committee sued the Trump campaign, the Russian government, Wikileaks on Friday, accusing them of conspiring to disrupt the 2016 presidential election.
    President Donald Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. and son-in-law Jared Kushner are among the defendants.
    The DNC says Russia found a “willing and active partner” in the Trump campaign to attack American democracy and defeat Hillary Clinton.

    Tom Perez, the DNC chairman, said, “This constituted an act of unprecedented treachery: the campaign of a nominee for President of the United States in league with a hostile foreign power to bolster its own chance to win the presidency.”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/20/democratic-party-files-suit-alleging-russia-the-trump-campaign-and-wikileaks-conspired-to-disrupt-the-2016-election-report.html
    ===============================================================
    What a bunch of fools at the DNC led by Tom Perez . Instead of putting resources of the DNC into THIS years election they are going to re-fight 2016. The Hillary Wing is like a stalker and will not let go. It’s like war gaming the Battle of the Bulge and expecting a different result. I can imagine the DNC Leadership sitting around in tin foil hats to deflect any influence from Russian Bots. Then again the DNC is just a front group for the Corporate Democratic Establishment.

  15. Monotonu,

    “Democratic Party files suit alleging Russia, the Trump campaign, and WikiLeaks conspired to disrupt the 2016 election.”

    You must be kidding. But you aren’t. The Democratic Party is a bad joke.

  16. I wonder what the ghosts of Mohammad Mosaddegh and Salvador Allende think of this frivolous lawsuit?

  17. I guess the German opposition made a blunder when they didn’t SUE Adolph Hitler in the 30’s over the Polish incident. It was clear that he cared much more about himself than his country when he started hostilities. Unlike the Democratic Party, they must have underestimated the power of a law suit.

    LAWSUIT vs. GUNS. Something new in history?

    Will the decision come down before or after the November elections?

  18. I don’t understand, I thought James Comey was the reason Hillary lost. Can’t they make up their mind. I guess they have.

    I hate to say it, maybe we’re lucky with Trump.

  19. All of the above squabbling is indicative of an absence of leadership in the opposition, an acceptance of disinformation and an inherent weakness in generating real opposition to the DNC’s mindless pursuit of last year’s news.

    While I agree with most of the hand-wringing written today, it is more important that we withhold donations while at the same time telling these political associations that they get no more money until they attack the real problem by doing thus: FIND, TRAIN, FIELD AND SUPPORT VIABLE CANDIDATES FOR EVERY OFFICE IN EVERY ELECTION THAT ARE COMMITTED TO THE POPULOUS AGENDA OF PEOPLES’ RIGHTS AND THE OVERALL HEALTH OF THE NATION AND ITS PEOPLE.

  20. Hell,they’ll probably push to have those of us who voted for Bernie thrown into jail….

    They’re probably working on that right now.

  21. William,

    “It’s 2018….The DNC is stuck at 2016.”

    They don’t even know how to play the game. What a bunch of jerks.

    “I skate to where the puck is gonna be, not where it has been.
    ~Wayne Gretzky, NHL great

  22. The following paragraph appeared in an article by Dani Rodrik, a professor of International Political Economy at the Harvard Kennedy School on the SocialEurope.eu site this morning:

    “One explanation is that the Democrats (and center-left parties in Western Europe) became too cozy with big finance and large corporations. Kuttner describes how Democratic Party leaders made an explicit decision to reach out to the financial sector following President Ronald Reagan’s electoral victories in the 1980s. Big banks became particularly influential not just through their financial clout, but also through their control of key policy making positions in Democratic administrations. The economic policies of the 1990s might have taken a different path if Bill Clinton had listened more to his labor secretary, Robert Reich, an academic and progressive policy advocate, and less to his Treasury secretary, Robert Rubin, a former Goldman Sachs executive.”

  23. Blue Wave Ha, Ha.

    Let’s see on one hand the Corporate Democratic Establishment (DNC and DCCC) via CNN and MSDNC tells us how totally incompetent The Trumpet (aka Agent Orange) is. We are told via CNN and MSDNC, The Trumpet is the opposite of King Midas – everything he touches turns into cow manure.

    Now we know with this Law Suit The Trumpet is a real life Master Criminal like Professor Moriety from Sherlock Holmes fame. He coordinated with the Russkies, and Wikileaks to achieve his election. Like Captain Queeg in the Caine Mutiny the DNC is in a desperate attempt to find – Who Stole the Strawberries (2016 Election).

    So let’s see here is list of people the Hillary Wing has blamed for losing to The Trumpet: Bernie Bots, Jill Stein, Comey, Russian Oligarchs, Russian Bots, Face Book, Deplorables, Wikileaks, and millennials.

    William @ 1:35 pm: This suit will make the Democratic Party nothing more than a punchline. This is stupid. > Totally Agree<<<

  24. I do not agree that the Democratic Party’s lawsuit is frivolous or even about Hillary. It’s about what it says it is – a conspiracy between Russia and the Trump campaign to bring about a favorable result in our 2016 election. Who the Democratic candidate was in 2016 is immaterial; it could have been John Q. Lunchbucket. As for how long the litigation will take (assuming it survives preliminary motions), of course it will be months if not years considering all the discovery and delaying tactics of one or more of the defendants we can expect to see.

    I think this is not a grandstander but a serious lawsuit which at bottom amounts to a defense of our teetering democracy, and I will be very interested in seeing how the defendants respond to interrogatories and depositions. As for “last year’s news,” with the exception of injunctive and mandamus and some court-fashioned relief, civil and criminal litigation is based on past facts, so that’s no argument. In my view, this is no time to hamper a continuation of our democracy by providing intellectual aid and comfort to wannabe dictators, and I for one will not be party to it, even in some regional blog, and for those who feel the Democratic Party is a failure, take a look at the opposition’s record, and then tell me about failure.

    Let’s not grease the skids for Putin and Trump to end our already damaged democracy; let’s instead resist them with every legal means available, including such as the lawsuit just filed, in the hope that our democracy can be not only saved but expanded upon. So is the Democratic Party perfect? Of course not; it’s a human institution, but it’s also our perhaps last and best great hope in saving what’s left of our democracy, our most precious asset held in common and one of the last few things left worth dying for. Given such circumstances, my vote is to aggressively pursue the relief sought in this litigation against Trump and Putin and their henchmen and (when Ivanka is named) women.

  25. Who knows what future lies ahead. One thing for sure, with this lawsuit, the DNC will maintain control of the Democratic Party. I for one do not think the Democratic Party is our ” LAST and best great hope in saving what’s left of our democracy.”

    I believe there are other non-partisan avenues that are also a possibility. And I’m going to put all my positive effort in that direction. Understandably, most contributors to this blog will attempt to do otherwise. Consequently, I don’t want to hinder that effort, which I’m not against, with any more negative input.

  26. Like Gerald; I do not believe the lawsuit is frivolous, but I would rather learn what the Democratic party plans to do regarding immigration reform, reestablishing ALL health care for women, keeping religion out of the entire education system, removing religion from our government, providing pollution prevention, providing protection for LGBTQs, increasing minimum wage, repairing/replacing collapsing infrastructure, etc., etc., etc. I would especially like to know what the Democratic party IS doing and WILL do to keep us out of a nuclear war. I am now seeing political ads on local TV – for Pence’s brother, not exactly what I am looking for.

  27. The law suit is about as off message as it can get (agreeing with the many above). But take it a little further, if Mueller finds no Trump collusion and no obstruction, the Dems are screwed because that’s been the only message they have been promoting.

  28. I’m not sure how this conversation veered from immigration to the DNC lawsuit, but in the spirit of veering along – Trump can fire Sessions, Rosenstein, and perhaps even Mueller, but he can’t fire his way out of a DNC lawsuit. That lawsuit just improved the chances that we will get to the bottom of Russian hacking and meddling.

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